Wanted to clarify: when I said muscular, I was really thinking more in terms of a hyper-musclization (body builders, Ahhhnold, etc). I should have been more clear, because I definitely think some building out of female action stars wouldn’t hurt; was just having the discussion with the GF that “slim” does not equal “strong;” lack of fat does not mean more power.

As far as the bigger men being considered heroic, I don’t think it should be overlooked that this is a comedy being sold to men. The characters are “laughable” in their lack of ability. It’s not that men get a free pass to be less-than-Adonis, it’s that these men get away with it because they are putting their own awkward looks up for ridicule.

I imagine the same might happen if women were a demonstrably larger segment of the action/action-comedy demographic, but that isn’t clear yet. As such, action movies seem to represent a hyper-realization of the male fantasy. I don’t know whether that can be labeled “fair” or not (how do you apply fairness to a fantasy?).

Being involved, even peripherally, with the Hollywood system forces me to see it, not as a twisted generator of cliches and harmful stereotypes, but a patently slow-witted mirror of our own desires. If there is a sizable-enough audience for less cookie-cutter images of women, someone will hurry to feed that need. The problem is one of numbers: it isn’t clear yet that enough women would pay to see a less-cliche female stereotype kicking ass. That makes people less inclined to do bet 60 million trying, especially when de-sexualizing the lead is almost certainly going to cut away from your built-in male audience.

The argument can be made that society teaches people what they want in their media, and that Hollywood is partly responsible for that. That said, if it didn’t sell tickets, Hollywood wouldn’t do it. The secret to getting more equal representation, I think, is to represent ourselves more in the audience. I can’t remember how much Long Kiss Goodnight made, but I don’t remember it breaking records.

(that said, I am typing this on my iPhone, and fingers are tired now. Also, I am stealing all this to put Into a script about a regular woman kicking ass)

You say that the male protagonists I used were “completely unsuited…to the task at hand” in their prospective movies. That might be the case at the beginning of the movie, but this “unsuitability” is mined for both comedy and sympathy. You’re supposed to sympathize with the fact that they’re black sheep, and in the end, they prove themselves more than capable of bravery, strength and compassion. I wasn’t pointing them out as examples of libido-popping men, but simply the fact that bigger men in action-related genres can be classed as heroic because they overcame the prejudices against them. This occurs in female heroines too, but they have to overcome their slenderness and girliness. It empowers, yes, but it also forces ass-kicking women to become skinnier and smaller so the writers/director/producers can give an easy “yay empowerment” moment without really doing anything.

I think in the last paragraph, you make an assumption that being muscular is a male-exclusive trait. I have problems with that, because it automatically dismisses a portion of the female population as “moving towards a masculine image” simply because they’re doing their jobs to the best of their abilities. A female tennis player or track star shouldn’t be derided for being less feminine when they’re simply striving for their greatest potential in their field. I know you only meant the entertainment field, but it points out a widely held idea that women should fit a cookie cutter image of the “feminine” which is just as wrong as demanding that men should fit the image of a ‘roided out musclehead. Yes, if they’re space marines, muscles are appropriate because of their job. Is it too much to expect that in a female space marine as well?

It’s not outrageous to suggest the action genre is marketed almost exclusively at men. Why then, have they received nothing but the same old T&A female heroines?

Lack of imagination and short supply in casting, is my guess. Until a woman comes along who can break the stereotypes (be a believable action star, be attractive, and weigh more than 120lbs), men are going to demand what they’ve learned to demand, through society and their own personal desires. People can’t ask for something they don’t know exists, and I think, right now, people can’t imagine what a 120lbs+ female action star would look like. It’s up to someone to change that.

Risking TLDR, there’s another interesting question: if women action stars become more muscled and lose some of the more obvious feminine traits, aren’t they really moving more towards a masculine image? In that sense, is something lost or gained? Is the protagonist freed from her constraining role as a female stereotype, or locked into a downward spiral toward a male stereotype?

Like you, I have my concerns of it going down the routes of Lost and Heroes (both of which I still watch because I hold out hope that they will rekindle the magic of their first seasons, which they don’t — but Lost is better than Heroes). I hope that they don’t go down that road — but only time will tell.

They were beautiful and perfect and absolutely amazing. Alas, Tom Bombadil and Fatty Bolger… but you can’t manage everything, even with 9 hours.

Lord of the Rings came out in 78. I was 11. I got the books for Christmas, stuck them on my shelf and forgot them. Then my dad took me to the movie. ZOMG. It was amazing and scary and exciting and…they forgot the ending. So I read the books.

And then I reread them over and over. It was my first into to fantasy that didn’t have some sort of science fiction overlay. I even have the coloring books for this movie. (the elves are all cross-eyed)

I don’t recommend it for anyone but completists or the nostalgic.

Nothing says those are male wolves. I’d get them for my girls and myself for family coven rituals. At least the ones that are too serious for the t-shirts with the three witches against the moon that reads “Girls’ Night Out”

But I love your analysis of the story.